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God is dead – or just missing in action?

darksin7

ANÓNIMO
Solo para ateos y agnosticos, y creyentes con mente abierta.

Perdonen que ponga esto en ingles, es un texto de Osho donde critica y complemente la frase de Nietzche de "Dios esta muerto".
A veces como ateo (o agnostico depende como quieran definirlo), al haber quitado a Dios de mi vida, he sentido como un hueco, o un vacío. Acá Osho explica porqué de ese vacío y como rellenarlo. A lo largo de los años he leído bastante y me he interesado por los gurús orientales, Budha, Osho y Krishnamurti principalmente, y estas doctrinas me han ayudado mucho a complementarme, a llenar ese "vacío".

Ahora entiendo y veo mucho sentido porqué muchos ateos caen en la amargura, y parecen vacíos y peleados con el mundo. Todos necesitamos espiritualidad (talvez no es la mejor palabra), pero necesitamos crecer internamente.
Los invito a leer este texto
[h=2]GOD IS DEAD – OR JUST MISSING IN ACTION?[/h]God Is Dead – Or Just Missing in Action?

"All the religions believe that God created the world and also mankind. But if you are created by someone, you are ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ a puppet, you don't have your own soul. And if you are created by somebody, he can uncreate you any moment. He neither asked you whether you wanted to be created, nor is he going to ask you: "Do you want to be uncreated?"

"God is the greatest dictator, if you accept the fiction that he created the world and also created mankind. If God is a reality, then man is a slave, a puppet. All the strings are in his hands, even your life. Then there is no question ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ any enlightenment. Then there is no question ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ there being any Gautam the Buddha, because there is no freedom at all. He pulls the strings, you dance; he pulls the strings, you cry; he pulls the strings, you start murders, suicide, war. You are just a puppet and he is the puppeteer.

"Then there is no question ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ sin or virtue, no question ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ sinners and saints. Nothing is good and nothing is bad, because you are ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ a puppet. A puppet cannot be responsible for its actions. Responsibility belongs to someone who has the freedom to act.

"Either God can exist or freedom, both cannot exist together.

"That is the basic implication ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ Friedrich Nietzsche's statement: God is dead, therefore man is free.

"No theologian, no founder ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ religions thought about this, that if you accept God as the creator, you are destroying the whole dignity ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ consciousness, ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ freedom, ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ love. You are taking all responsibility from man, and you are taking all his freedom away. You are reducing the whole ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ existence to just the whim ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ a strange fellow called God.

"But Nietzsche's statement is bound to be ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ one side ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the coin. He is perfectly right, but ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ about one side ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the coin. He has made a very significant and meaningful statement, but he has forgotten one thing, which was bound to happen because his statement is based on rationality, logic and intellect. It is not based on meditation.

"Man is free, but free for what? If there is no God and man is free, that will simply mean man is now capable ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ doing anything, good or bad; there is nobody to judge him, nobody to forgive him. This freedom will be simply licentiousness.

"There comes the other side. You remove God and you leave man utterly empty. ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ course, you declare his freedom, but to what purpose? How is he going to use his freedom creatively, responsibly? How is he going to avoid freedom being reduced to licentiousness?

"Friedrich Nietzsche was not aware ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ any meditations – that is the other side ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the coin.

"Man is free, but his freedom can ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ be a joy and a blessing to him if he is rooted in meditation.

"Remove God – that is perfectly okay, he has been the greatest danger to human freedom – but give man also some meaning and significance, some creativity, some receptivity, some path to find his eternal existence.

"Zen is the other side ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the coin. Zen does not have any God, that's its beauty.

"But it has a tremendous science to transform your consciousness, to bring so much awareness to you that you cannot commit evil. It is not a commandment from outside, it comes from your innermost being. Once you know your center ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ being, once you know you are one with the cosmos – and the cosmos has never been created, it has been there always and always, and will be there always and always, from eternity to eternity – once you know your luminous being, your hidden Gautam Buddha, it is impossible to do anything wrong, it is impossible to do anything evil, it is impossible to do any sin.

"Friedrich Nietzsche in his last phase ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ life became almost insane. He was hospitalized, kept in a mad asylum. Such a great giant, what happened to him? He had concluded: "God is dead," but it is a negative conclusion. He became empty, but his freedom was meaningless. There was no joy in it because it was ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ freedom from God, but for what? Freedom has two sides: from and for. The other side was missing. That drove him insane.

"Emptiness always drives people insane. You need some grounding, you need some centering, you need some relationship with existence. God being dead, all your relationship with existence was finished. God being dead, you were left alone without roots. A tree cannot live without roots, nor can you.

"God was non-existential, but it was a good consolation. It used to fill people's interior, although it was a lie. But even a lie, repeated thousands and thousands ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ times for millennia, becomes almost a truth. God has been a great consolation to people in their fear, in their dread, in their awareness ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ old age and death, and beyond – the unknown darkness.

"God has been a tremendous consolation, although it was a lie.

"Lies can console you, you have to understand it. In fact lies are sweeter than the truth.

"Gautam Buddha is reported to have said: "Truth is bitter in the beginning, sweet in the end, and lies are sweet in the beginning, bitter in the end" – when they are exposed. Then comes a tremendous bitterness, that you have been deceived by all your parents, by all your teachers, by all your priests, by all your so-called leaders. You have been continuously deceived. That frustration brings up a great distrust in everybody. "Nobody is worthy ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ trust..." It creates a vacuum.

"So Nietzsche was not insane in this last phase ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ his life, it was the inevitable conclusion ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ his negative approach. An intellect can ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ be negative; it can argue and criticize and be sarcastic, but it cannot give you any nourishment. From no negative standpoint can you get any nourishment. So he lost his God, and he lost his consolation. He became free just to be mad.

"And it is not ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ Friedrich Nietzsche, so it cannot be said that it was just an accident. Many intellectual giants find themselves in mad asylums or commit suicide, because nobody can live in a negative darkness. One needs light and a positive, affirmative experience ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ truth. Nietzsche demolished the light and created a vacuum in himself and in others who followed him.

"If you feel deep down a vacuum, utter emptiness with no meaning, it is because ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ Friedrich Nietzsche. A whole philosophy has grown in the West: Nietzsche is the founder ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ this very negative approach to life.

"Soren Kierkegaard, and Jean-Paul Sartre, and Marcel, and Jaspers, and Martin Heidegger – all the great giants ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the first half ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the 20th century – were talking ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ about meaninglessness, anguish, suffering, anxiety, dread, fear, angst. And this philosophy has been called in the West existentialism. It is not. It is simply non-existentialism. It destroys everything that has consoled you.

"I agree with the destruction because what was consoling man was ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ lies. God, heaven, hell – all were fictions created to console man. It is good they are destroyed, but you are leaving man in an utter vacuum. Out ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ that vacuum existentialism is born, that's why it talks ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ about meaninglessness: "Life has no meaning." It talks about no significance: "You are just an accident. Whether you are here or not does not matter at all to existence."

"And these people call their philosophy existentialism. They should call it accidentalism.

"You are not needed; just by accident, on the margin, somehow you have popped up. God was making you a puppet, and these philosophers from Nietzsche to Jean-Paul Sartre are making you accidental.

"And there is a tremendous need in man's being to be related to existence. He needs roots in existence, because ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ when the roots go deep into existence will he blossom into a Buddha, will he blossom into millions ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ flowers, will his life not be meaningless. Then his life will be tremendously overflowing with meaning, significance, blissfulness; his life will be simply a celebration.

"But the conclusion ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the so-called existentialists is that you are unnecessary, that your life has no meaning, no significance. Existence is not in need ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ you at all!

"So I want to complete Friedrich Nietzsche's work; it is incomplete. It will lead the whole ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ humanity to madness – not ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ Friedrich Nietzsche, but the whole ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ humanity. Without God certainly you are free, but for what? You are left with empty hands. You were with empty hands before also, because the hands that looked full were full ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ lies. Now you are absolutely aware that the hands are empty and there is nowhere to go.

"I have heard about one very famous atheist. He died, and his wife brought his best clothes, best shoes, before he was put in the coffin – the best tie, the costliest possible. She wanted to give him a good farewell, a good send-off. He was dressed as he had never dressed in his whole life.

"And then friends came, and neighbors came. And one woman said: "Wow! He's all dressed up and nowhere to go." He was an atheist, so he did not believe in God, he did not believe in heaven, he did not believe in hell – nowhere to go, and so well-dressed! "But this is the situation any negative philosophy is going to leave for the whole ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ mankind: well-dressed, ready to go, but nowhere to go! This situation creates insanity…

"Unless your freedom becomes your very flowering ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ awareness, and the experience ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ freedom leads you into eternity, leads you into the roots, into the cosmos and existence, you are going to be mad. Your life will be meaningless, with no significance. Whatever you do it does not matter.

"Existence according to the so-called existentialists, who are all following Friedrich Nietzsche, the founder, is absolutely unintelligent. They have taken away God, so they think – according to logic it seems apparently true – if there is no God, existence also becomes dead, with no intelligence, with no life. God used to be the life, God used to be the consciousness. God used to be the very meaning, the very salt ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ our being. With God no longer there, this whole existence becomes soulless, life becomes just a by-product ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ matter. So when you die, everything will die, nothing will remain.

"And there is no question ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ being good or bad. Existence is absolutely indifferent, it does not care about you. God used to care about you. Once God is removed, a great strangeness starts happening between you and existence. There is no relationship, existence does not care, cannot care because it is not conscious anymore. It is no longer an intelligent universe, it is simply dead matter, just as you are. And the life that you know is ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ a by-product.

"A by-product disappears immediately when the elements that were creating it separate…

"Once you know that a certain balance is needed between the negative and the positive, then you have your roots in existence.

"It is one extreme to believe in God; it is another extreme not to believe in God, and you have to be just in the middle, absolutely balanced. Atheism becomes irrelevant, theism becomes irrelevant. But your balancing brings a new light, a new joy, a new blissfulness to you, a new intelligence which is not ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the mind. That intelligence which is not ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the mind makes you aware that the whole existence is tremendously intelligent. It is not ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ alive, it has sensitivity, it has intelligence.

"Once you know your inner being is balanced and silent and peaceful, suddenly doors that have been closed by your thoughts simply move, and the whole existence becomes clear to you. You are not accidental. Existence needs you. Without you something will be missing in existence and nobody can replace it.

"That's what gives you dignity, that the whole existence will miss you. The stars and sun and moon, the trees and birds and earth - everything in the universe will feel a small place is vacant which cannot be filled by anybody except you. This gives you a tremendous joy, a fulfillment that you are related to existence, and existence cares for you. Once you are clean and clear, you can see tremendous love falling on you from all dimensions.

"You are the highest evolution ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ existence, ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ intelligence, and it is dependent on you. If you grow higher than the mind and its intelligence, towards no-mind and its intelligence, existence is going to celebrate: one man again has reached to the ultimate peak. One part ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ existence has suddenly risen to the highest possibilities ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ the intrinsic potential in everybody….

"And a man who knows his relation, his deep relation with existence, cannot commit anything against existence, against life. It is simply impossible. He can ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ pour as much blissfulness, as much benediction, as much grace as you are ready to receive. But his sources are inexhaustible. When you have found your inexhaustible sources ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ life and its ecstasy, then it does not matter whether you have a God or not. It does not matter whether there is a hell or a heaven. It does not matter at all…

"I am teaching you how to come in contact with existence, how to find out where you are connected, wired with existence. From where are you getting your life moment to moment? Where is your intelligence coming from? If existence is unintelligent, how can you be intelligent? Where will you get it from?

"When you see the rose flowers blossoming, have you ever thought that all this color, all this softness, all this beauty was hidden somewhere in the seed? But the seed alone was not enough to become a rose, it needed the support ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ existence – the soil, the water, the sun. Then the seed disappeared into the soil and the rosebush started growing. Now it needs air, it needs water, it needs the earth, it needs the sun, it needs the moon. All these together transform the seed which was almost like a dead piece ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ stone. Suddenly a transformation, a metamorphosis. These roses, these colors, this beauty, this fragrance, cannot come from it unless existence has it already. It all may be hidden, it may be covered in the seed. But anything that happens means it was there already – maybe as a potential. You have intelligence..."





Fuente: God Is Dead ? Or Just Missing in Action? | OSHO | Meditation - Mindfulness and The Science ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ The Inner
 
... es un texto de Osho donde critica y complemente la frase de Nietzche de "Dios esta muerto".

Quien haya leído a Nietzche, específicamente el libro llamado "EL ANTICRISTO", sabrá que quienes ni siquiera se han dignado a leerlo, se han encargado de dispersar como un rumor y utilizar esta frase fuera de contexto. La frase utilizada por Nietzche tiene un transfondo diferente y más profundo, al que se puede interpretar sin analizar el contexto de su obra.

Pasa igual que con Maquiavelo; todo el mundo conoce la frase: "El fin justifica los medios" y se la atribuyen a él, como un aspecto negativo de su línea de pensamiento... pero ni su obra "El PRÍNCIPE" y en ninguna otra, encontrarán dicha frase. Simplemente sus detractores modificaron la frase original para darle un tono negativo, con el fin de que las obras del autor fueran rechazadas e inclusive hasta prohibidas en su época.
 
Nine Inch Nails – Heresy

He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see
He tries to tell me what I put inside ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity
He dreamed up a god and called it Christianity
Your god is dead and no one cares
If there is a hell I will see you there

He flexed his muscles to keep his flock ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom ************SPAM/BANNEAR************ killing suffering and pain
Demands devotion atrocities done in his name
Your god is dead and no one cares
Drowning in his own hypocrisy
And if there is a hell I will see you there
Burning with your god in humility
Will you die for this?




El titulo me recordo esa pieza de una de mis bandas favoritas
 
Quien haya leído a Nietzche, específicamente el libro llamado "EL ANTICRISTO", sabrá que quienes ni siquiera se han dignado a leerlo, se han encargado de dispersar como un rumor y utilizar esta frase fuera de contexto. La frase utilizada por Nietzche tiene un transfondo diferente y más profundo, al que se puede interpretar sin analizar el contexto de su obra.

Pasa igual que con Maquiavelo; todo el mundo conoce la frase: "El fin justifica los medios" y se la atribuyen a él, como un aspecto negativo de su línea de pensamiento... pero ni su obra "El PRÍNCIPE" y en ninguna otra, encontrarán dicha frase. Simplemente sus detractores modificaron la frase original para darle un tono negativo, con el fin de que las obras del autor fueran rechazadas e inclusive hasta prohibidas en su época.

Pero leiste el texto que puse? Osho esta deacuerdo con la frase y el contexto, pero Osho afirma que esa frase es solo una mitad de una moneda. Osho afirma que al liberarse de "Dios" el hombre es libre en su pensamiento y deja de ser una marioneta, pero a su vez esta libertad por si misma puede ser peligrosa, y en el texto explica el porque puede ser peligroso, y explica como enfocar esa libertad de una buena y sana forma.
 
El que se la pasa diciendo que es ateo y viendo vídeos de que dios es mentira y aquí y allá, es que tiene miedo por que me las corto que vos venía de una familia religiosa o al menos creyente, fijo vas a. Teminar en un culto peor de lo que salió. Un ateo se preocupa de cosas importantes como technologia, ahorrar para viajar, como liarás a la vecina, comprarse una compu más pichudo . No hasta el tiempo viendo vídeos de eso


Cuanto ateo conoce uno en la calle que empieza uno a hablar de los pitufos o de el iPhone 6 o cualquier tema random y el mae sale con el tema que es ateo sin que nadie le preguntará. No será que Sos u resentido con la religión
 
El que se la pasa diciendo que es ateo y viendo vídeos de que dios es mentira y aquí y allá, es que tiene miedo por que me las corto que vos venía de una familia religiosa o al menos creyente, fijo vas a. Teminar en un culto peor de lo que salió. Un ateo se preocupa de cosas importantes como technologia, ahorrar para viajar, como liarás a la vecina, comprarse una compu más pichudo . No hasta el tiempo viendo vídeos de eso

Nunca falta un bombeta que no sabe nada pero responde como si supiera todo. :/
Primero que todo, NUNCA HE DICHO QUE SOY ATEO.
y Segundo. Un ateo o agnostico tiene derecho a investigar y aprender de todo! no solo de teconologia o las cosas que dices :/



Cuanto ateo conoce uno en la calle que empieza uno a hablar de los pitufos o de el iPhone 6 o cualquier tema random y el mae sale con el tema que es ateo sin que nadie le preguntará. No será que Sos u resentido con la religión

Yo nunca digo que soy un NO creyente en la calle, solo lo digo si alguien me pregunta a mi especificamente en que creo y en que no, y aun asi trato de evadir la pregunta. En este pais decir que uno no es cristiano, es peor que alguien diga que es gay. Desgraciadamente aqui abunda la gente prejuiciosa como vos!
 
Interesante, Buddha, Osho y Krishnamurti, que sí he leído un poco, y que aclaro no son religiones, sino sabiduría o filosofía oriental, están a otro nivel, critican esencialmente a ateos y religiosos, por cuanto este como otros conflictos son preguntas del mundo. El mundo como tal es como un espejismo, una ilusión, y este mundo aparente, en sí sólo genera más preguntas, que llevan a más preguntas, todo es parte de una construcción y discusiones de nuestro yo contra nuestro yo, y los otros yoes que no llevan a nada. A través de la meditación y la observación conciente, salimos de esa matrix, llegando a la paz, y a la contemplación neutral, donde se puede atisbar un poco la verdad y solucionar los problemas.

Claro Osho es complicado en español, ahora más duro en inglés..., igual es una opción muy valedera, por cuanto el rechazo de una religión, lleva como decís, vacíos, preguntas que generan muchas preguntas, tal vez la necesidad de un sentido trascendente, que las alternativas como estas nos dan, sin ser una respuesta porque más bien son un camino a diferencia de las religiones que sí dan respuestas y tienen la verdad absoluta. Curioso Krishnamurti rechazó fundar un credo en 1921, cuando tenía miles de fanáticos que se lo pedían, el dijo que la verdad nunca puede ser mostrada por una autoridad.

Aquí una frase de Krishnamurti que sintetiza su pensamiento

"El núcleo de las enseñanzas de Krishnamurti está contenido en la declaración que hizo en 1929 cuando dijo: «La Verdad es una tierra sin caminos». El hombre no puede llegar a ella por ninguna organización, ningún credo, ningún dogma, ningún sacerdote o ritual, ni por ningún conocimiento o técnica filosófica. Tiene que encontrarla a través del espejo de la relación, de la comprensión de todo el contenido de su propia mente, de la observación y no por medio del análisis intelectual o introspectivo.
El hombre ha creado dentro de sí mismo a modo de barrera de seguridad, imágenes religiosas, políticas, personales que se manifiestan en símbolos, ideas y creencias. El peso de estas imágenes domina el pensamiento de hombre, su relación, y su vida cotidiana. Estas imágenes son la causa de nuestros problemas porque dividen a los seres humanos. Su percepción de la vida está moldeada por conceptos que la mente previamente establece. El contenido de su consciencia es toda su existencia. La individualidad es el nombre, la forma, y la cultura superficial que obtiene de la tradición y del entorno. La unicidad del hombre no yace en lo superficial, sino en la completa libertad del contenido de su consciencia, la cual es común a toda la humanidad. De modo que no es un individuo."
 
Quien haya leído a Nietzche, específicamente el libro llamado "EL ANTICRISTO", sabrá que quienes ni siquiera se han dignado a leerlo, se han encargado de dispersar como un rumor y utilizar esta frase fuera de contexto. La frase utilizada por Nietzche tiene un transfondo diferente y más profundo, al que se puede interpretar sin analizar el contexto de su obra.

Pasa igual que con Maquiavelo; todo el mundo conoce la frase: "El fin justifica los medios" y se la atribuyen a él, como un aspecto negativo de su línea de pensamiento... pero ni su obra "El PRÍNCIPE" y en ninguna otra, encontrarán dicha frase. Simplemente sus detractores modificaron la frase original para darle un tono negativo, con el fin de que las obras del autor fueran rechazadas e inclusive hasta prohibidas en su época.


Correcto lo de la frase de Nietzche que apuntas, bueno el contexto en dijo que Dios ha muerto, lo entiendo en el sentido que lo religioso (y por ende la creencia en un ser divino) había muerto, debido a la modernidad (desde Descartes) en que la autoridad eclesiástica y religiosa queda en entredicho y perdía fuerza. No obstante, el contexto correcto es decir que dijo que no sólo Dios ha muerto, sino la Razón ha muerto también (cosa que nadie dice de Nietzche), que era el nuevo Dios del positivismo. El desacredita a a la razón como fuente de verdad, para él esta tenía serios vicios como lo demuestra, nada es como aparenta, toda construcción lógica tiene muchas deficiencias, de ahí el relativismo que domina a partir de entonces.

Este positivismo, o racionalismo (el nuevo Dios), está muy acentuado en nuestro país (que no lee a Nietzche), al decir que podemos organizar la sociedad, arreglar un problema con una ley, o que sabemos lo que pasa (politicos....) Es aplicar leyes de la naturaleza, de la razón, a la convivencia humana y vida, esa es una arrogancia tremenda. La vida es demasiado compleja para manejarla o presumir saber de que es lo que pasa.

Lo curioso es que Nietzche es citado mucho en contextos orientales como un autor occidental que descubrió toda esta farsa, la farsa de la discusión religiosa-lógico-teológica.

Aquí este autor argentino Carlos Monterroso, lo cita mucho en LAS TRAMPAS DE OCCIDENTE, que es una lectura libre que recomiendo.

http://informacionestrategica.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/monterroso-carlos-las-trampas-de-occidente.pdf
 

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